Legislature(1993 - 1994)
10/30/1993 01:30 PM Senate STA
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Wasilla, Ak.
October 30, 1993
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chair
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Pat Carney
Representative Ron Larson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 1
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to the individual right to keep and bear arms.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 34
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to the individual right to keep and bear arms.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SJR 1 - See State Affairs minutes dated 9/17/93 and 10/23/93.
SJR 34 - See State Affairs minutes dated 9/17/93 and 10/23/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Mark Chryson
2140 Wolverine Circle
Wasilla, Alaska 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Paul Barelka
553 Robin Circle
Wasilla, Alaska 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Scotty Parkes
P.O. Box 975566
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Mark Gordon
HC01 6131 AB
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Ed Allen
2753 Porcupine
Wasilla, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Herbert Thompson
P.O. Box 1
Talkeetna, Ak. 99676
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Charles Marsh
P.O. Box 2750
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported both resolutions, but preferred SJR R
34.
Walt Warner
P.O. Box 520028
Big Lake, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Alexander Clark
3900 Misty
P.O. Box 4022
Palmer, Ak. 49645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kenneth Smith
P.O. Box 3574
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Sam Rick
P.O. Box 877522
Wasilla, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to keep and bear arms.
Glenn C. Marden
P. O. Box 3552
Palmer, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms, but not the e
legislation.
Michael Carpenter
335 Boniface
Anchorage, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Margaret Betts
P.O. Box 871012
Wasilla, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms and both
pieces of legislation.
Mark Miller
HC01
P.O. Box 693611
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear all kinds of firms ms
arms.
Mike Chryst
P.O. Box 872488
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Leo A. Brueggeman
P.O. Box 520684
Big Lake, Ak. 99652
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Sylvia Nichols
P.O. Box 4100
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Kevin Robinson
P.O. Box 2711
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms and clearer
language.
David McGraw
1500 Catalina Dr.
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to keep and bear arms.
David McGraw II
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Marvin Cook
P.O. Box 9
Talkeetna, Ak. 99676
POSITION STATEMENT:
Michael Jordan
P.O. Box 84
Willow, Ak. 99688
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Gary McCrorey
HC33 Box 2900
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Richard Roberts
P.O. Box 1430
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
L.J. Zweifel
P.O. Box 1936
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms and SJR 34
and SJR 1.
Herb Marshall
P.O. Box 873745
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
David Norton
P.O. Box 2742
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
David L. Lazer
HC01, Box 6877
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms, but to put
it in clear language.
Noel Woods
Matanuska Valley Sportsmen
P.O. Box 827
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Steve Lord
P.O. Box 670271
Chugiak, Ak. 99567
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Michael P. Favors
P.O. Box 2757
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
R. W. Sanderline
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Robert Kohler
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Rick Bryant
2275 Gordon
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Randall C. Scherer
P.O. Box 870862
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
William Wood
P.O. Box 3622
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Alec C. Clark
P.O. Box 4022
Palmer, Ak. 99657
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Monty Cassidy
P.O. Box 521457
Big Lake, Ak. 99652
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Robert E. Lilly
P.O. Box 520396
Big Lake, Ak. 99657
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Jean Woods
P.O. Box 827
Palmer, Ak. 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Laura Lahrson
P.O. Box 873411
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
David Mitchell
P.O. Box 871388
Wasilla, Ak. 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Edward Barno
2055 Gordon Circle
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Ron Arnold, President
Alaska Outdoor Council
2932 C Street, # B
Anchorage, Ak. 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Bob Gabel
HC 32, Box 5247 A-8
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
John Ward
2450 Wards Rd.
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Mr. Morgan
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jim Thompson
P.O. Box 876417
Wasilla, Ak. 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-36, SIDE A
Number 027
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate State Affairs meeting to order and
announced SJR 1 (RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS) and SJR 34 (RIGHT T T T
KEEP AND BEAR ARMS) to be up for consideration. He asked Portia
Babcock, Aide to the Senate State Affairs Committee, to give an
overview on the differences between SJR 1 and SJR 34.
Number 032
PORTIA BABCOCK explained the second section of SJR 1 includes a
clause that has unclear language relating to other rights to bear
arms laws and ordinances and said there is a question whether they
would be protected in the constitution if this resolution passes.
There is another question about the effective date when the laws
would be protected in the constitution.
SJR 34 was introduced to exclude the section 2 language, because it
was so unclear.
REPRESENTATIVE RON LARSON explained the process for passing
legislation to the audience.
REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY commented that this was a large audience
and this is how many people would always be at legislative hearings
if the capitol was in Wasilla.
MARK CHRYSON, Gun Owners of American and Alaska Independence Party,
supported the individual right to keep and bear arms. He supported
SJR 34 because the language is much stronger.
PAUL BARELKA, Alaska Independence Party, commented that the Borough
form of government is illegal, because it doesn't give them
representation. They would like to have elected law enforcement
officials to organize a militia to enforce the rights of Americans
as written in the Constitution. He didn't have a preference for
either resolution.
SCOTTY PARKES supported the right to bear arms.
MARK GORDON strongly supported the constitutional right of citizens
to keep and bear arms. He supported SJR 34. He also supported
permitting concealed carry and thought those who commit crimes with
fire arms should be unmercifully and aggressively prosecuted.
ED ALLEN said that disarming the citizenry is not a good way to
deal with misuse of arms. Guns are our last line of defense, he
said and supported SJR 34.
HERBERT THOMPSON, Talkeetna resident, supported the right to bear
arms.
Number 300
CHARLES MARSH asked for a brief explanation of the differences in
the versions.
SENATOR LEMAN announced that he would accept written testimony as
well as oral testimony.
MR. MARSH commented that the language "keep and bear arms" was not
strong enough. He suggested stating "the individual's rights to
legally own fire arms shall not be denied."
MS. BABCOCK again explained the differences between SJR 1 and SJR
34.
WALT WARNER, Willow, supported SJR 34. He asked what the
legislature is doing about the assumption that when a fire arms
accident happens at home, it gives the authorities the right to go
in and seize every weapon in the house.
ALEXANDER CLARK, Wasilla resident, supported his testimony.
SENATOR LEMAN said they would get an answer regarding what the law
enforcement agencies are doing.
KENNETH SMITH said he wanted to see very clear language on the
right to bear arms, because we might need guns to protect ourselves
from Washington someday. He said, "If legislation and the law is
not legal, then to resist that law is not illegal."
TAPE 93-36, SIDE B
SAM RICKS, Point McKenzie resident, said his grandparents fought in n
the American revolution for just this purpose - for the right to
keep and bear arms. He said he was a retired law enforcement
officer and can't remember anyone ever going into someone's house
and taking their fire arms without just cause.
GLENN MARDEN said his neighborhood has a reputation for shooting
back and not dialling 911 and they don't have a crime problem. He
said he would shy away from grandfathering in things that would be
unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court has never ruled in favor
of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms to be a
collective right. In seeking something else, they are admitting
that the right to bear arms is a collective right and not an
individual right.
MICHAEL CARPENTER asked Senator Leman what were the chances of this
legislation passing. SENATOR LEMAN said getting it through House
Judiciary might be difficult.
MARGARET BETTS supported the right to bear arms.
MARK MILLER supported the right to bear all kinds of fire arms.
MIKE CHRYST, Standing Against Government Excess (SAGE), supported
SJR 34. Thomas Jefferson said, "The nice thing about the second
amendment is that you never need it until they try to take it."
LEO BRUEGGEMAN supported SJR 34. He did not like the wording that
exists now.
SYLVIA NICHOLS supported the right to bear arms.
Number 300
KEVIN ROBINSON supported law abiding citizens having the right to
keep and bear arms. He thought the language should be a little
more to the point.
DAVID MCGRAW supported the right to keep and bear arms.
DAVID MCGRAW II supported SJR 34.
MARVIN COOK supported SJR 34. He said the Constitution of the
United States is being infringed on a regular basis. The right to
bear arms should over rule the state prohibition for concealed
carry. The concept that criminals should have all the advantages
and lawful citizens have none is unbelievable.
MICHAEL JORDAN supported SJR 34.
GARY MCCROREY supported any bill to keep and bear arms. He wanted
to be able to protect himself and his family against criminals.
RICHARD ROBERTS said the West Virginia amendment should be added to
SJR 34.
L.J. ZWEIFEL said that law abiding citizens have the right to keep
and bear arms and protect themselves against those who chose to
break the law. She supported any legislation that was for the
right to keep and bear arms.
HERB MARSHALL commented that the Constitution says time after time
that it is an individual's right to bear arms, not just the army's
right.
SENATOR LEMAN said that the Committee is serious about this
legislation and they are having the meeting because they believe in
it.
DAVID NORTON supported SJR 34, because it would not grandfather in
existing laws or laws that would be made during the interim. He
said his right to bear arms comes from God, not the constitution.
DAVID LAZER supported the right to bear arms and emphasized that
the legislation, whatever the number, should have very clear
language so that people understand what they are voting on.
NOEL WOODS, Matanuska Valley Sportsmen, supported the right to keep
and bear fire arms.
TAPE 93-37, SIDE A
STEVE LORD said this country was founded by people who believed in
God. God has been systematically destroyed in schools. He
supported SJR 34 and said it supported the original Constitution of
the United States.
MICHAEL FAVORS said we need to write our Congressmen, the
President, etc. and let them know how we feel about the right to
bear arms.
R. W. SANDERLINE supported SJR 34.
ROBERT KOHLER supported SJR 34.
RICK BRYANT supported the right to bear arms legislation. He
supported SJR 34.
RANDALL SCHERER supported the right to bear arms.
WILLIAM WOOD said if we don't have the right to bear arms, other
countries will just come in and take over.
ALEC CLARK, law enforcement officer, researched the records of 150
murderers. Out of those, only one individual purchased a fire arm
for the sole reason of committing a crime. Everyone else used
something that was already there - a truck, a wood stove, etc. The
availability of fire arms is not responsible for the rise in crime.
He supported SJR 34 and the West Virginia amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE LARSON commented that he favored the legislation
regarding juveniles who commit felonies being tried as adults. He
asked if they agreed. He received a lot of agreement from the
audience.
MONTY CASSIDY supported SJR 34. He also liked the wording in the
West Virginia amendment.
ROBERT LILLY supported the right to bear arms.
JEAN WOODS, National Rifle Association, explained that the second
amendment of the Constitution was written by the founding fathers
for a civilian army. Because the militia has changed, we have a
standing army; but we still have the right to keep and bear arms as
citizens to protect ourselves from domestic and foreign disorder.
LAURA LAHRSON, naturalized American citizen, said the three most
important rights we have are the right to free speech, to vote, and
to keep and bear arms. She supported SJR 34.
DAVID MITCHELL supported SJR 34 and the West Virginia amendment.
EDWARD BARNO supported SJR 34, but favored the language of the West
Virginia Constitution.
ROD ARNOLD, President, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported SJR 34.
He said it was important to have clear wording.
BOB GABEL supported the right to bear arms.
JOHN WARD supported the right to keep and bear arms. He pointed
out that the whole Borough they are in is as big as West Virginia
and they have only 2 police officers. He supported having a
concealed carry permit program.
MR. MORGAN, Eagle River resident, supported SJR 34.
JIM THOMPSON said he was involved with the student exchange program
and has a student from Czechoslovakia. This student said it was
illegal to carry weapons of any sort there. People who hold office
there cannot be overthrown because of their money and the time they
have been in office. He supported SJR 34 and the West Virginia
amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY said he appreciated the crowd.
SENATOR LEMAN thanked everyone for their participation and
adjourned the meeting.
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